Croneness = Crone finesse (A survey)

[Jeanne]

I don't know what wild hair moved me to start a group called Crone to the Bone
...but that's how I'd been feeling.
...it was like my inner radical punk, vegan grandmother came out.
I wanted to be part of a group with an in-your-face, primitive name... not a neatly starched apron-wearing, apple pie baking crone name. (actually, lets keep the apple pie);

...I wanted to talk to other women of maturity who were knee-deep in real life
...family, career, relationships, businesses, property, stress... stuff
...who'd rather stay home and talk via their computer. Women different than many we see everyday.
...yet, one and the same.
...so much smarts, humor, wisdom and grace... expressed in gently chosen words, reassuring phrases and supportive, smart-ass expressions of truth
...and amazing stories of determined existence and bouncing back.

Cyber-grandmas...

I have a few questions about crones...
Please, tell me what you really think... and it will inform my questions...
and who knows, maybe even be an answer?

Answer any or all questions that move you to express.
If you want to speak anonymously, please send me an email.
I understand that cronehood, aging and its necessary adjustments are sensitive subjects...

I am interested in hearing from you.


1.What image does the word ‘crone’ conjure up in your mind?

2.What moved you to join an online crone group? (if you did...)

3.What possibilities do you see for global online crone communities – a concept unheard of until only a few years ago?

4.Describe your personal experience with:

a.the comedy of crone,

b.the tragedy of crone.

[Marian]

OK answer questions first: then the fun part!!
1. crone turned me off at first - Shell/Pearl invited me ages ago & I backed off. Then reading your post today Jeanne, I realized it is just me pretending I'm not the age I am (living with my inner me usually gets me by on the 19-year old in my head) and figuring your lovely description of women who'd rather stay home & communicate on their computers -- yes yes - but then also crone, n., fr. Mediev.Fr. charoine, Middle Eng. carrion, dead flesh - a little raw for one's taste, and yet crone has respect in fairy tales and occult lit. (usually derived from prehistoric or early historic cultures who revered ancestors -dead or alive).
2.just answered that! You & Shell are both lovely & loving people
3.I guess we're just starting & building by the day - sky's the limit - so long as the men will let us!!!
4.a I have time to laugh now; love my own humor, always have, so now I indulge it more; chat to the cats, birds, any living thing I happen to meet, without allowing myself to hear the younger person's self-criticism of being 'loopy'
b. not a lot of tragedy, except in losing friends of similar age (to death) - which I am not about to succumb to for some extensive period of time; in fact I have this theory that aging is a myth...........................
unless you count arthritis - but then on days when my meditations are superb, I don't even feel it.

... and I wanted to let you in on a gentle/hopeful video by Lakota elder Russell Means http://www.russellmeansfreedom.com/2009/02/ in which he explains so sweetly how the last civilization left on earth of the ancient matriarchal society with its respect for & belief in the female elders is the Native American culture (& the Maya & Hopi, but they are all intergenetic). It is a beautifully simple 45-min film if you have time. It made me feel there is hope for the world (those patriarchal guys).
Thank you for asking succinct questions, Jeanne. Bless this Group. Forgive me for doubting & taking so long to join . Marian

[Jeanne]

What a powerful statement you make, Deborah... passionate, eloquent, and filled with pearls.

You are right... "No one is going to give us back our personal power or rights"; it is "time to remember and forge a new path for our sacred origins"; "by listening to our selves, uniting with other women and sharing in the healthy reformation."

Deborah Sue Pomeroy Reckmeyer said:

What I see ... is that the age old wisdom held by women has been marginalized and put aside from today’s culture for many years now... along with the teachers and healers… enslaved into the drudgery and monotony of life…

The word crone conjures up old decrepit and obsolete. Let’s do a little research … google says ugly, old withered woman, hag, Old North French… cantankerous, ill-tempered, quarrelsome and difficult to handle. Obviously written by a man… (to note I am not a man hater at all ~ just know the out of balance world we live in right now)

The old wise woman, sage, muse and other terms used over time have been destroyed to leave us with a powerless definition that does not fit our soul. We are kept busy and distracted to even be able to understand the complete loss of our birthright and our sacred position in this dimension.

No one is going to give us back our personal power or rights. The lost esoteric knowledge has not been handed down from one generation to the next. Innately we know the truth. Our desires and abilities are strong. It’s time to listen to our heart and re-establish our position in this world.

I believe strongly that only by listening to our selves, uniting with other women and sharing in the healthy reformation of our truest beings can we re-empower our core essence. This world needs us not to be the yoked caretakers that can manage to keep everything going like a mule on the grinder. We need to release all that binds us and refocus who we are and all that has been … withheld from us for a very long time.

I see the path… I feel the weight of the burden for so many years… the beauty of the wise woman and all that she offers to bring balance, health and wellbeing to this world is long overdue.

I believe that in this time is the time to remember and forge a new path for our sacred origins. We need to focus on empowering ourselves and our children to stand firmly in who they are and not accept all that is.

Being made the fool, the emotionally weak and incapable is a lie. The only power of the lie is if we personally accept the lie as truth. Actually we are very powerful beings and do have the ability of creation. The sickness and ugliness is a curse set long ago. Youth and beauty only feed who? Actually remember Canterbury Tales… What do woman really truly want… we want the freedom to use and choose our gifts… and when we do… life is so much more!

Woman united can do so very much… you know… you remember… when you try… I saw a wonderful video on youtube last year of wise woman all over the world coming together… I will try to find it and post it.

Thank you…

[Kathleen]

1- The image that comes to mind is that of the witch of the west in the Wizard of Oz. In reality, a few years ago while looking for information on surviving menopause, I came across information about crones, as a natural extension of womanhood after the change.
2- My mother recommended checking the group out. It seemed natural to join, because it is an opportunity to share with others that have reached a level of maturity and wisdom (although I swear I haven't grown up yet) through the simple fact of having survived and thrived this long. As a matter of fact, Mom(Violette) and I were writing back and forth on Facebook and I asked her "at what age does one become a crone"
3- The possibilities of an online crone community are totally realistic, its a matter of letting other like minded souls to know of its existence. The question would be, what projection to the society could it have? I mean, it should not be a closed group in the sense that it would be a shame if all that wisdom and experience is not put to good use.
4- I cannot say that I have had any personal experience either with comedy or tragedy regarding crones. However, it is both tragic and comic for a woman of a certain age to try to act as if she were still a teenager, rather than accepting gracefully the changes that come with physical maturity. Each period has its enchantments and age is something that can't be removed. The only one that is really deceived is the person that trys to appear what can no longer be logically sustained. Thats the point where I'm at now, but it was part of a gradual process, I couldn't do it overnight. I had to get to the point where is hurt more to go back than to go on. I think that if a woman has inner beauty it with be transmitted no matter what her age. I made a video last year for a friend on her birthday about the reality of being a woman of a "certain age"--we are both 55--but it is in italian, maybe I'll redo it for this group in english.

[Ron Alexander]

"Bubba" is the vital unconditional loving grandmother I have been writing about - grandmothers, crones - the most important people in the world to me. Thanks, Jeanne for starting the group

[Jeanne]

Thank-you, Marian, for being doubtful and taking so long... I'm honored with for your frank response. ...and hello to the 19yo in your head.
My choice of the word crone is an ode to 19yo punk anarchists that look for words that cut the deepest.
See, I'm a half-breed... that doesn't mean much now that we have one in the white house...
but when I was a kid, I never said it out loud... especially since my whiteness was often a protective veneer.
Later, when I observed the punk culture treat the pain of not fitting in like a crown... my way with words changed.
...and when I observed my transsexual friend's lifestyle... I learned to be assertive like a man in woman's clothing.
...oh, I've said too much again...

I don't deliberately try to find obnoxious words... but I wanted to cast light on the subject of aging and its unique responsibilities, opportunities and challenges. I didn't want to make it pretty... nor hideous, and crone rhymed with bone...

Thank-you for the Russell link... I find myself checking out his site frequently. I see him as a modern Geronimo... He's been a significant voice for indigenous Americans for many years... persistently pointing at truth, imploring the revival of native culture and tradition, keeping a wounded culture alive.

Thanks Marian, for joining the Crone to the bone group.

[Jeanne]

In Jeanne's world... retirement communities would be built near nursery schools, with an indoor/outdoor common area between them... where the old and young could benefit from one anothers gifts.

Your memories of an "unconditional loving grandmother ...crones" as "the most important people in the world" is gold. Thanks, Ron for sharing your beloved Bubba with us.

[AkashicWreckage]

1.What image does the word ‘crone’ conjure up in your mind?

I don't recall having any kind of an "image" of crone, although I know that some may toss the word at another, as almost an insult. To me, The Crone has represented achievement, perseverance and victory.

2.What moved you to join an online crone group? (if you did...)

You read my mind and started the group---what could I do? ;-)

3.What possibilities do you see for global online crone communities – a concept unheard of until only a few years ago?

I see endless possibilities! It's nothing short of amazing to me, the number of women, older-seasoned women---like Violette, who are so communication savvy. And, their willingness to share, be uplifting and supportive.

4.Describe your personal experience with:

a.the comedy of crone

Ummm---hmmmm---
Yes, well----
I think I'd best end this---
Lest I get carried away...
AW

[Ron Alexander]

"Bubba" is the vital unconditional loving grandmother I have been writing about - grandmothers, crones - the most important people in the world to me. Thanks, Jeanne for starting the group

As you can see, she looks old-fashioned, kinda stern, but she was my maternal grandmother - "Bubba" - she was not a hugger, a kisser or very expressive, however
her consistent loving energy to me was a "life-safer". I don't think I could have existed on this planet without her. I found a postcard (posted on the day after my birthday) recently addressed to my Dad: "I know you don't want another boy, so if you want me and Pad (her sweet husband) to take him, we will be glad to." Ruby Hillhouse

I was very honored by a message from "Annie" above who said she saw a crone in me! Thank you very much, Annie!

[AkashicWreckage]

I smiled as I read this, Annie! I think we must be long lost sisters, or something!
The channel that is opened, with online communities such as this, truly mark a "mind to mind," type of connection.

I suppose that in days of old, the quilting bees, or women gathering to sit in the parlor and embroider, or whatever---served the purpose of sisterhood, camaraderie, wisdom sharing, or energy building----that there is no similar way in these days. Online communities, I believe, can be the bridges---between us all.

Annie said:

I needed to add that I saw this in my minds eye.....not in my room. Hav'nt reached that level of spiritual advancement yet. Or insanity?! Question #2 I was moved to join because it had a unique name & I saw Melanies pic w/the smiling orbs & cigarette & thought wow this looks like it might be fun. #3 I really don't have a clue except it would be nice to have some like minded real live people to talk with. I think people are lonely for this since the techno age came along. #4 Being a clown at a very young age I would entertain my family w/my unique albeit strange sense of humor. Still have it but not many places at the moment to express it. I love genuinely funny people. Tragedy is I've lost my whole family due to death or betrayal. Never had children which I don't see as a tragedy. So I tutor children as there energy is great for a compassionate, caring person.. the wise crone likes this & as Marion I too love talking to my cat, hearing birds, hugging trees. I'm wafflling again. Stop.

[Imelda Maguire]

Hello Everyone

Well, Jeanne this is for sure what the younger generation is missing in wisdom and grace.

When I first came upone the term Crone to the Bone I had to join. The image of the old wise wild haired lady in the cave with the message that 'I am you', also came to my mind's eye way back in my 30's. Through the journey of time and life as well as the physical changes of early onset menapause from complete removal of the uterus and ovaries, cancer at 57 I have felt just like that 'Crone to the Bone'.
I elected not to have any chemo or radiation in order to let life just be what it was going to be. To be full, alive loving, caring and sharing with all other women who experienced the madness that comes immediately after the removal of the vital female organs. The madness was the best gift ever and began the departure from the working world removing the drivenness to become financially rich and the need to acquire.
Instead a whole new world of deep reflection, creative expression, understanding sharing and loving with other crones became utermost important. It is with this venue of written honest sharing that I am here posting along with you all.

~*LOVE ALWAYS*~

[Jeanne]

I'm trying to remember... was it the witch of the west or the east that was the beautiful, kind one? I dunno... and I suspect she's not the one your mind conjured up with the crone word. ...but rather the one who melted in the end... and we all loved seeing her go down! ...my little pretty.

Funny... but no one's laughing, that the crone as witch was consciously and deliberately promoted during the Inquisition. The assault on older women's gifts was not accidental. Funnier, still... and we're not laughing, is that much of that imagery and folklore continues to be told.

If you haven't grown up yet... maybe you never will. One of the things I love about being older, is I don't feel like I have to prove my maturity... so I can be as silly as I like... and no ones says I'm immature. I have way more fun now that my grandchildren have liberated me...

I'd love to see the video of "women of a certain age." You said it right... "if a woman has inner beauty it will be transmitted no matter what her age." As young crones, we have much to look forward to... you especially... with those good Violette genes.

Kathleen said:

1- The image that comes to mind is that of the witch of the west in the Wizard of Oz. In reality, a few years ago while looking for information on surviving menopause, I came across information about crones, as a natural extension of womanhood after the change.
2- My mother recommended checking the group out. It seemed natural to join, because it is an opportunity to share with others that have reached a level of maturity and wisdom (although I swear I haven't grown up yet) through the simple fact of having survived and thrived this long. As a matter of fact, Mom(Violette) and I were writing back and forth on Facebook and I asked her "at what age does one become a crone"
3- The possibilities of an online crone community are totally realistic, its a matter of letting other like minded souls to know of its existence. The question would be, what projection to the society could it have? I mean, it should not be a closed group in the sense that it would be a shame if all that wisdom and experience is not put to good use.
4- I cannot say that I have had any personal experience either with comedy or tragedy regarding crones. However, it is both tragic and comic for a woman of a certain age to try to act as if she were still a teenager, rather than accepting gracefully the changes that come with physical maturity. Each period has its enchantments and age is something that can't be removed. The only one that is really deceived is the person that trys to appear what can no longer be logically sustained. Thats the point where I'm at now, but it was part of a gradual process, I couldn't do it overnight. I had to get to the point where is hurt more to go back than to go on. I think that if a woman has inner beauty it with be transmitted no matter what her age. I made a video last year for a friend on her birthday about the reality of being a woman of a "certain age"--we are both 55--but it is in italian, maybe I'll redo it for this group in english.

[Jeanne]

My grandmother didn't want to hear anyone called 'old'. Even as a kid, I thought that was strange and awry... the elderly are old! I'm young, they're old. ...and then to add crone to old; well, those woulda been fightin words.

When I was old enough to voice my puzzlement, I asked what the problem was with saying someone is old if they are. Grandma said it was disrespectful. OK... got it... its not supposed to make sense.

Truth be told... Crone to the Bone would not exist if it were not for Violette. I asked her opinion... thinking that maybe the name was too in-your-face. ...but then again, just enough. I wanted to encourage discussion, to hear about crones living the "fountain of age."

Violette said, "do it."


AkashicWreckage said:

1.What image does the word ‘crone’ conjure up in your mind?

I don't recall having any kind of an "image" of crone, although I know that some may toss the word at another, as almost an insult. To me, The Crone has represented achievement, perseverance and victory.

2.What moved you to join an online crone group? (if you did...)

You read my mind and started the group---what could I do? ;-)

3.What possibilities do you see for global online crone communities – a concept unheard of until only a few years ago?

I see endless possibilities! It's nothing short of amazing to me, the number of women, older-seasoned women---like Violette, who are so communication savvy. And, their willingness to share, be uplifting and supportive.

4.Describe your personal experience with:

a.the comedy of crone

Ummm---hmmmm---
Yes, well----
I think I'd best end this---
Lest I get carried away...
AW