Vipassana

[chad steele]

Ten days of silent meditation... tingly.

I'd love to hear your stories, outcomes, etc.

for more info... http://www.dhamma.org/

[Ron Alexander]

chad steele said:

Ron, et.al.

I'm reading and I've heard the request for a "Vipassana" group a couple of times now. I personally would rather we stay here so that people interested in meditation will discover vipassana... plus, as far as I can tell there's less than 10 people contributing to this one thread... barely 4 really and I doubt that justifies a group.

...and that's just my o pinion, not the truth, so if someone wants to create a group... it is all good (equanimous)
:)

Thanks for responding, Chad. Sounds rational to me! ron

[Ron Alexander]

Response to Ron Tocknell's "Being One" on main page:Truth - what is truth? To me, Ron - truth has to be a whole body experience, and I have to be the one who experiences it.
I have to feel it in my physical self. I have been a yoga teacher. I have studied Somatics in graduate school, and now as I have mentioned, Vipassana meditation is my newest practice. Here is more about Vipassana, and the eternal truths it deals with -

"It is a process of self-purification by self-observation. One begins by observing the natural breath to concentrate the mind. With a sharpened awareness one proceeds to observe the changing nature of body and mind, and experiences the universal truths of impermanence, suffering, & egolessness. This truth-realization by direct-experience is the process of purification. The entire path (Dhamma) is a universal remedy for universal problems, and has nothing to do with any organized religion or sectarianism. For this reason, it can be practiced freely by everyone, at any time, in any place, without conflict due to race, community, or religion, and it will prove equally beneficial to one and all." from the tract "Vipassana Meditation" as taught by S.N. Goenka

The "universal truths of impermanence, suffering, & egolessness" have all been proven scientifically now which is important to me also as a trained scientist.

If you really want to see the results of Vipassana, I suggest renting or buying the documentary: "The Dhamma Brothers"
It is about the ten day silent course being taken into the worst prison in Alabama and working only with convicted murderers. That documentary is why I went to take the course myself and hope to facilitate getting teachers into S.C. prisons, especially where my nephew will be residing for a few years now. Also, I have ordered a book called Letters from the Dhamma Brothers.It is about the same prisoners and what they are experiencing a few years down the line.

I proudly call myself a Dhamma Brother now! I am still struggling with my "monkey mind" during meditations, but I have had momentary hints of the calming inner peace as a result of the purification. and I have joyous expectations to experience the "aliveness" felt by older students like Jeanne here - see the
"discussion Vipassanna" on the Meditation group here on AAOAND.
'Thanks for inspiring serious helpful dialogue here, Ron No mistake, ron

[chad steele]

In my book www.InfinityPrinciple.com I say Truth = within / without

Vipassana is one of a million ways to go inward (perhaps the best), but that is not enough... you must also cause your sense of "without" to go to zero to have an infinite sense of truth... there is no "lack" in the infinite truth. Scarcity is purely an egoic experience of the rational mind.

One of the things I loved about Vipassana is that it is NOT about quieting the monkey. It is about engaging it in the practice, not putting it to sleep. I loved that... likewise, the Infinity Principle is rooted in engaging the rational mind.

I've started a ning group I'd love to see you all there too... InfinityPrinciple.ning.com

Ron Alexander said:

Response to Ron Tocknell's "Being One" on main page:Truth - what is truth? To me, Ron - truth has to be a whole body experience, and I have to be the one who experiences it.

[Ron Alexander]

Chad wrote: "One of the things I loved about Vipassana is that it is NOT about quieting the monkey. It is about engaging it in the practice, not putting it to sleep. I loved that..."

With all due respect, Chad, when I write about the "monkey" mind, and I bet it is all semantics, I am speaking of the untamed mind. This is the mind that cannot concentrate. The mind that we spend the first three days at the Vipassana retreat learning to focus on the breath, the senses ('sensations") around the nostril, the "cool air inhaled in vs. the warm air at the exhalation, the subtle tickling sensations around the upper lip from the breath, " etc. My monkey mind is wild and needed that first three days of training just to get to the fourth day when Vipassana really starts - which I call a full body awareness of sensory data from the scalp all through the body to the tips of the toes. This takes concentration and my "monkey"' mind this morning during my sitting was going through how I would write this...

I think when one can "automatically" get to the 'free flow" of full body sensory awareness one can experience what Jeanne describes?
"Vipassana... As it is... and for me, sometimes, it is exciting, especially after getting up from an hour sit. Sometimes I want to break into a run - skipping and jumping... feeling good to be so alive. But I don't... I simply observe my excitement... (knowing the team is winning.)"

I hope our dhamma sister Jeane can write more about this, because it is definitely beyond what I descibe a "monkey mind."

[chad steele]

Yes Ron we're talking about the same thing... I wasn't trying to correct you before, just clarifying for some imaginary audience whose only experience of meditation is that they have to stop thinking "quiet the monkey"... I could never get into other forms of meditation because I thought I had to stop thinking... and thinking about not thinking was never very fruitful for me... I like how you said "focus" the monkey mind.

:)

[Jeanne]

Chad steele said: Vipassana is one of a million ways to go inward (perhaps the best), but that is not enough... you must also cause your sense of "without" to go to zero to have an infinite sense of truth... there is no "lack" in the infinite truth. Scarcity is purely an egoic experience of the rational mind.

As long as the mind is in the field of duality... opposites exist - one is not in a state of oneness. Scarcity is a state of mind... like many others... lust, greed, envy, scarcity, etc. that has an opposing viewpoint.

When one connects to the flow of dhamma (the term used here as it is used at vipassana courses), one is in a state that transcends duality, thus calming the monkey mind which would otherwise be jumping back and forth between all the possibilities... the infinite possibilities.

All the possibilities always exist... and manage to keep the monkey busy - jumping from pieces of truth to other pieces of truth; equanimity as a manifestation of the inner state of mind - develops and grows through the time spent in the flow of dhamma, thus achieving a transcendence of the ever in conflict consciousness of duality.

I find your statement paradoxical... you say vipassana is the best, but not enough... and then say "Scarcity is purely an egoic experience..." ...is not, not enough - a scarcity?

I met a man who said he brought some psychedelic mushrooms with him on his first course... in case he got bored. Said he didn't take them, cuz he never got bored. Thats how I feel about exploring the field of mind... never boring... its an adventure. (I should add that that man... is now the veteran of dozens of courses.)

[Jeanne]

I've been a bit shy about coming back to this thread. Did you ever feel like you said too much? My last post, after publishing it, I got a knot in my stomach that said, you said too much. I told my husband... "I said too much and I bet no one responds to it." ...and no one has.

But its hard to keep a big mouth shut... LOL.

The monkey mind and the flow... eh?
IMHO, The monkey is the busy-ness of the mind... and it gets into everything - senses, thoughts, sensations, emotions, feelings... the many ways we elucidate and communicate our states of being... the monkey is there.
The monkey is also there in the flow... it becomes one with the nature of reality, rather than trying to understand, dissect, analyze, or interpret meaning... it loves the flow too. The flow of dhamma is soma to the soul, to the monkey and to everything within vibrational range.



Ron Alexander said:

Chad wrote: "One of the things I loved about Vipassana is that it is NOT about quieting the monkey. It is about engaging it in the practice, not putting it to sleep. I loved that..."

With all due respect, Chad, when I write about the "monkey" mind, and I bet it is all semantics, I am speaking of the untamed mind. This is the mind that cannot concentrate. The mind that we spend the first three days at the Vipassana retreat learning to focus on the breath, the senses ('sensations") around the nostril, the "cool air inhaled in vs. the warm air at the exhalation, the subtle tickling sensations around the upper lip from the breath, " etc. My monkey mind is wild and needed that first three days of training just to get to the fourth day when Vipassana really starts - which I call a full body awareness of sensory data from the scalp all through the body to the tips of the toes. This takes concentration and my "monkey"' mind this morning during my sitting was going through how I would write this...

I think when one can "automatically" get to the 'free flow" of full body sensory awareness one can experience what Jeanne describes?
"Vipassana... As it is... and for me, sometimes, it is exciting, especially after getting up from an hour sit. Sometimes I want to break into a run - skipping and jumping... feeling good to be so alive. But I don't... I simply observe my excitement... (knowing the team is winning.)"

I hope our dhamma sister Jeane can write more about this, because it is definitely beyond what I descibe a "monkey mind."

[Jeanne]

Ron, not to be disagreeable with Chad... but I disagree that starting a vipassana group should be based on rational numbers. This is a social network, not a capitalistic venture. It took months for Crone to the Bone to have over 12 members... but we're steadily growing... and I've noticed that some members have joined AOAND and then immediately joined the Crones... which leads me to believe that maybe they joined AOAND in order to join Crones. Anyhoo... I believe a volition to spread the dhamma is the soul speaking.

Furthermore... a point given, by a friend who attends 12 step groups - is that he hears people talk all the time about 'prayer and meditation.' ...yet when queried about meditation... they're really talking about reflection or self hypnosis - not meditation... and especially not to those listeners who've been to Goenka's Buddhist boot camp and experientially understand the rigor and discipline of meditation. Vipassana is a very specific activity... unlike watching the shapes in clouds or specks on the wall and unlike visualizing a peaceful ocean scene and unlike focusing on a candle. IMHO... it is an art and science worthy of its own group... if someone is moved to take the helm... Captain.

Ron Alexander said:

chad steele said:

Ron, et.al.

I'm reading and I've heard the request for a "Vipassana" group a couple of times now. I personally would rather we stay here so that people interested in meditation will discover vipassana... plus, as far as I can tell there's less than 10 people contributing to this one thread... barely 4 really and I doubt that justifies a group.

...and that's just my o pinion, not the truth, so if someone wants to create a group... it is all good (equanimous)
:)

Thanks for responding, Chad. Sounds rational to me! ron

[Ron Alexander]

Hi Jeanne and Chad, I have been away from the computer turning on Vipassana to a Eckhart Tolle study group- his last part of THE NEW EARTH.describes Vipassana-type meditation pretty well without naming it. Then I turned it on to a Men's group, with only one there who really grasped the idea of it. In fact, I had two men arguing that "you can't meditate wrong" - obviously did not believe in Samahdi - concentration.

Jeanne, are you saying that dividing the Monkey Mind from the Concentrated Mind duality? That would be like dividing the ego from the Self and calling it duality too? If so, I tend to agree with you, but, in your meditation do you sometime obtain the transcendant state - the feeliing of being out of the mind, body and the ego?

I will meditate on starting a Vipassana site, Dhamma Sister

I have made a few new friends from showing off my grandmother on your Crone question! One, did not even know about the group, and now I notice she is a new member. And I have loved Violette for a few months now! Is it Dhamma Crone Sister? Chad, I appreciate you Dhamma Brother! thanks, ron

Where is dhamma brother drmike?

I am enthused ("excited" with calmness & equanimity) about recieving three Vipassana Books today - Letters from the Dhamma Brothers, The Discourse Summaries, & Meditation Now. I may need the support of a group while reading these. I have been disappointed not to hear back from any of my ten dayers.

[chad steele]

I too have been offline all day... jeanne, you're cute... you let a whole hour pass before feeling ignored. lol :)

My only point in responding here and now is to re-emphasize that vipassana, dhamma, etc. will lose all value in the world if it becomes yet another exclusive club. Jeanne, you sound a bit exclusive to me, not an insult, just my listening for people who think their god is better than mine... or in this case, that their vipassana or their little cronie group, or whatever it is that is good/bad/right or wrong... it is all good. really.

... and finally, being equanimous is still stuck in duality as long as you compare it to NOT equanimous... hilarious.

[Jeanne]

No exclusivity... at least none intended.
Yet I can see the overtones... such as those who love dance - take its discipline to a level that most never will... and musicians... and athletes... each is like an exclusive club...

None of my family and only a few friends have shown interest in even one 10-day vipassana course... and even fewer find the concept of living like a monk particularly desireable. Only one in ten folks who've done a 10-day course, return for a second. What that tells me is that its not for everyone... but its not exclusive... anyone is welcome.

Actually the post I referred to was a few days before... but my reference was off.

I can dig it about who's god is better battle... another beauty of Buddhism. God is a non-issue.


chad steele said:

I too have been offline all day... jeanne, you're cute... you let a whole hour pass before feeling ignored. lol :)

My only point in responding here and now is to re-emphasize that vipassana, dhamma, etc. will lose all value in the world if it becomes yet another exclusive club. Jeanne, you sound a bit exclusive to me, not an insult, just my listening for people who think their god is better than mine... or in this case, that their vipassana or their little cronie group, or whatever it is that is good/bad/right or wrong... it is all good. really.

... and finally, being equanimous is still stuck in duality as long as you compare it to NOT equanimous... hilarious.

[chad steele]

An interview about my book the Infinity Principle click here

See www.InfinityPrinciple.com