Parenting, Guiding and Teaching Children in a New Dawn

Comment

Comment by Jeanne on August 15, 2009 at 3:34pm

Claudia, I thought the whole idea of these groups is to discuss openly... so all can read and reply. The idea that it should be taken into a private email... well, it suggests some covert, unspeakableness around parenting. I don't agree... we need to be transparent... to each other and to the children (though not about adult matters.) As to suggesting that Jim take the discussion to a new thread... I guess that should be his idea.

Jim, I think we need to understand what violence is before we label any action as violent. Its not as black and white as some might think. If I stick a knife in your belly in anger or if a surgeon sticks a knife in your belly to alleviate some medical issue - we know that the volition of the action is different... so we don't arrest the surgeon.
Fire... I was a fire starter as a kid... I would hide and play with fire... almost started a forest fire once. With that memory, I allowed my son to play with fire in my presence starting at 4yo. When we didn't have a fireplace or weren't at a picnic spot with a firepit... I used an old, big pan and torn up newspapers. Years later, he thanked me and said it was a good thing for him. He learned to respect fire and how to use it. ...same with water, gravity - rock climbing... all require guidance.
As to hitting... my son took karate - wado karate, the way of peace... a samurai discipline - he hit and was hit. He learned to defend himself and it saved his life on more than one occasion. In my 36yo son's life, I hit him 3 times... once when he was 7 and twice (two days in a row), when he was 9.
When he was 9, there was a rapist randomly hitting neighborhoods all over the city, raping both boys and girls. Three days in a row, my son ventured out beyond where I knew he was and beyond the time frame that he was allowed. I reasoned that his fear of my discipline, needed to exceed my fear of the rapist finding him. It was an extraordinary case and I felt called for extraordinary measures. ...and I spoke to him about it the first day and spanked him 2 days in a row when talking didn't work. It was not in anger, nor did I want to do it...

I have often wondered about parents in extraordinary circumstances... like the Jews hiding from the Nazis... and how they kept the children quiet... and other times of duress in human history.
I am a vegan. I practice nonviolence in my life... but I know that the seeds of violence are in the volition... not just the action.

Comment by Alaniya Patton on August 8, 2009 at 9:38am

thanks jim for your explanations of where you were coming from. i still respectfully disagree with many things you said in your comments, but i don't feel the "comments" on the wall are the place to discuss that. we can either take it into private messages, or you could open your own thread in the discussion forum of this group?

Comment by Jim on August 7, 2009 at 11:19pm

Claudia, My child is 12 years old and may have been hie 4 times in his life. I'm by no means an advocate of beating. Hitting was reserved for situations that were potentially seriously harmful.An example would be my son at a youg age had a fascination with the burners on the stove. The dangers were explained to him but he truly just didn't comprehend what being burnt was. I went as far as having a relative with a severe burn show him their burn and talk to him about it. I took every precaution to monitor him around the kitchen and even let him help at a young age. He still wnted to touch the burner. Yes he got a smack finally, yes it worked.No he's not an ax murderer now. Yes I explained to him again that he couldn't touch the burner and that the burn would hurt him way more than the smack. Please don't use the never do's I don't know any absolutes in life.(including hitting) There are times when no amount of reason is going to prevail. Most children learn to hit by themselves by the way and too bite. It is a normal part of child developement. I don't know of many parents that bite their children,. It is instinct. Physical responses to the world are natural. It as our jobs to teach when and if they are appropriate.It has also been my observation that some children that have never been hit are the worst bullies and grow up to have more behavioral problems especially later in life with substance abuse. I work in the mental health field and you'd be suprised at what books full of theories don't tell you. Authors make money by selling theories and they often exploit what we would like to hear.There are tons of studies now that will tell you just how wrong many accepted theories were. We have gone from spare the rod spoil the child. to The rod will make your child a violent monster. I propose that neither and both are correct. I stand by my original statement. Know your child.

Comment by Alaniya Patton on August 7, 2009 at 9:07pm

hitting a child never taught anything other than that hitting is an acceptable action.I cannot disagree more with you there Jim.

Comment by Jim on August 7, 2009 at 7:11pm

I think setting any one standard is wrong. First you must build a relationship with your child. This will let you know what your child needs more than anything else. Second be honest with your child and he will feel safe being honest with you. I believe each child even in the same family may need a different approach, so throw away the magazines and talk to your kids. Some kids may need a good job, a cookie or even a swat. I think it sets a dangerous precedent not to praise our kids. Consider this it's evaluation time at work your boss says nothing? repeats a laundry list of what you did through out the year, but no raise? says good job? Your response depends on you and your needs to all these situations, not anybodies theory. My advice know before you do!

Comment by Jim on August 5, 2009 at 4:52pm

a lot has been said here. I think i will wisely remain quiet and absorb it for now.

Comment by Leah Juarez on August 5, 2009 at 5:16am

Thank you, Mike. I'm so glad you see the value in focusing on our children. Yes -- it is extremely important to take care of ourselves first, so we can be there for our kids. This can actually be quite difficult to remember. I use the example of traveling on an airplane. When the flight attendant is giving safety instructions and saying "If cabin pressure should drop, an oxygen mask will fall from the ceiling. Place your mask firmly in place before assisting children or others" - it always goes through my head that if I were with my kids during such an emergency, my first instinct would be to get that thing on their little faces as soon as possible! But what good would that do if I'm scrambling, loosing oxygen and passing out while trying to help them? If I would just take 5 seconds, first, to get my own mask on, I can be there 100% to help my kids. So must we all -- everyday. Just take a few minutes each morning or night to secure your oxygen mask in place (whatever that means to you), and then be completely 100% present for your kids! ~Leah

Comment by drmike on August 4, 2009 at 4:58am

Hi Everyone,

You all have touched my heart with this group. It may be the most important one on AOAND, at least for me. As we go forward with discussions of how to best serve our children we must bear in mind that we must take care of ourselves to be the best we can be. Even if we are going to rough and bad times, for me to have my son know that I am meeting the challenge will instill in him (I hope) a similiar degree of tenacity. They are looking and learning each moment.

Best,
Mike

Comment by Jeanne on August 2, 2009 at 12:10pm

As a young mother, I was overwhelmed with the multitude of contradicting messages regarding childrearing. I listened to all, but truth is... life happens and in the moment when a child's mind inquires, theories and philosophies pale. In the face of innocent questioning, honesty is your best guide. Sometimes the most profound answer is, "I don't know... lets explore that question together."

Some say adults are old children and children are young sages... there's some truth to that, but there is also truth to our responsibility as adults to protect and guide... while being open to being guided as well. So in addition to an open honesty, balance and flexibility helps the adult maintain the flow of communication so necessary for ongoing trust and growth.

I applaud Piaget, Montessori, Steiner, Bloom, Spady, etc... whose academic work has assisted earnest parents seeking answers, but more than the theorists, I applaud the parents who don't live with theory, who don't operate in a controlled lab environment... but in the messy lab of life.

As a mother and grandmother, I am as proud of my non-professional achievements as I am of those that are appropriate on a resume. In fact, I have come to resent the limitations that typical resume construction puts on my life-long learning and experience. I am a mother and grandmother, foremost and first... and all other experiences merely follow.

Comment by Alaniya Patton on August 2, 2009 at 8:54am

I have made the experience, that my children find the "best and most meaningful" lessons all by themselves. For me it has been a journey to continously "step out of their way", to toss all preconceived ideas of what they have to learn out and totally so. In this journey I learned the very humbling lesson that I will never be privy to the knowledge of what another human being has to learn. The more I let my children be whoever they are, the more I am rewarded with most beautiful moments that I couldn't even have dreamed of. We are lucky enough that the children's Montessori education is allowing their strengths to come to the fore and they both are so very different from each other, which tells me that they are truly who they need to be, whether I can approve, wrap my mind around it, fathom how they will sail through their lives from here on out, matters very little. At home I give them the safety of a loving heart, the structures of a healthy home and the time to be there for them with an open, unprejudiced ear, when and if they need it.

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