We’d like to show the side of the world you don’t normally see on television.

Vipassana

Ten days of silent meditation... tingly.

I'd love to hear your stories, outcomes, etc.

for more info... http://www.dhamma.org/

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ron Alexander on July 17, 2009 at 4:38pm

Dear Dr.Mike, I know you would like Isaac Bailey. Like you, he has become an important teacher/friend to me. ron
I will write sometime more about what he taught me about the difference between living in the world of "should" vs.world of "could" and the "real world". I started out "shoulding" him unconsciously, and did he humble me, after explaining the difference. Then he taught me alot about doing what you can , and leaving the rest to God. Then after I mentioned my fear of white racists. He taught me his real courage of getting death threats for his opinion column, and with 2 small children, he regularty has to call cops to provide protection for them. Then he empowered me by what he taught me about privilege. He helped me lose alot of "liberal guilt" by telling me that "we are all children of God, He just happened to be born ot a "poor black family", and in this lifetime, "God placed me in a rich landowning while family." (I did not tell him about the paucity of my inheritance)
Writing this, I have decided to promote his book. ron

Permalink Reply by drmike on July 27, 2009 at 7:51am

Dear Dhamma group,

For anyone interested I posted some "postlude" comments regarding my Vipassana trip. Honestly, I'm not practicing formally everyday, but I do see some improvement in perspective. Comments are welcome.

Thanks,
Mike

Permalink Reply by Ron Alexander on August 3, 2009 at 12:28pm

Hi Chad, thanks for starting this "discussion" - how about a "Vipassana Group"? - you Dhamma Brothers and Sisters have been very inspirational to me, and I really appreciated this message from Jeanne, and I especially appreciate the "100 day comment", as it was so full! And we know that it is really almost 12 days also - especially if like me, you have long drive to get there.

Back from ten day silent Vipassana Retreat
Jeanne has sent you a message on Architects of a New Dawn

Congratulations Ron,

and welcome to the club... tee hee. You are now an old student... and it only took ten days to earn your stripes... ten long days.

Have you heard that each day at a vipassana retreat is ten days long, so a ten day retreat is equivalent to 100 days.
But seriously, I'm happy to hear that you completed what may be the best thing you've ever done. And I'm happy to call you a dhamma brother.

I And my weaknesses are "aversions", ''being right" "telling too many stories" and having a hard time sitting over 30 minutes at a time.

MAY ALL BEINGS BE HAPPY. ron

Permalink Reply by Jeanne on August 3, 2009 at 1:24pm

Ron said: "...having a hard time sitting over 30 minutes at a time."

Funny... who would have thought that sitting is hard?
On our first course, I glanced over at my husband at the end of an hour and he had so many cushions under him, that they looked like a chair. Now he uses only a small blanket folded over... just enough to slightly raise his lower spine. He swore at the end of that first course that he would never be able to be comfortable sitting... and now he is a marathon sitter.

...patiently and persistently, you are bound to succeed... I love those words.

Permalink Reply by Ron Alexander on August 4, 2009 at 8:43am

Jeanne said:

Ron said: "...having a hard time sitting over 30 minutes at a time."

Funny... who would have thought that sitting is hard?
On our first course, I glanced over at my husband at the end of an hour and he had so many cushions under him, that they looked like a chair. Now he uses only a small blanket folded over... just enough to slightly raise his lower spine. He swore at the end of that first course that he would never be able to be comfortable sitting... and now he is a marathon sitter.

...patiently and persistently, you are bound to succeed... I love those words.

Hi Jeane, thanks for your reply - my cushions against the backwall ended up looking like a throne, and I especially had a hard time during the one hour group sessions with the teachers looking on. However, I pleased to report that this morning I got up expecting a hard time sitting for one hour in my simple wooden meditation chair (I did add one cushion after all my "assskara" during the course). However, when I finally looked over at watch, I thought it would be between 30 & 45 minutes, and low and behold, it was 1 hour and 15 minutes!

I am trying to be equanimitous, instead of getting too "rah rah" about this. I asked Anand the teacher about "why not getting really excited about things like your team winning?". Expecting a lecture about how "pleasure samskaras were just as hurtful as painful ones in the long run", instead he simply looked at me with his clear eyes and beautiful smile and said:
"Why can't we be joyous every moment?"

Here is another helpful to an answer to me by Anand: as usual during meditation, besides using a mantra ("calmly and with equanimity" here), I was used to trying to develop my third eye - the sixth chakra. Here it kept getting blocked - felt like a hood over it. Anand told me "where did you learn that?" I told him from Swami Vishnu Devananda during a Sivananda teacher training course on Paradise Island in the Bahamas. Anand replied:
"that is physical, here we work with mind and matter and mind is over matter." As we progressed in the ten day, I realized we developed awareness for whole body and not for special spots like the chakras.
One Love, ron

Permalink Reply by drmike on August 4, 2009 at 11:13am

Love this people! Getting trained to accept reality for what it is, without wavering to and fro. To live in each moment, and try to enjoy it for what it is....What a concept!

Best,
Mike

Permalink Reply by Ron Alexander on August 6, 2009 at 10:14am

drmike said:

Love this people! Getting trained to accept reality for what it is, without wavering to and fro. To live in each moment, and try to enjoy it for what it is....What a concept!

Best,
Mike

For my "metta" Loving Kindness meditation, I have been using Ho'oponoopono - for everyone, and especially myself
"I am sorry, Please Fogive me...thank you. I love you." May All Beings Be Happy, what do you'll think? ron

Permalink Reply by Ron Alexander on August 6, 2009 at 8:01pm

Hi Ron, I, too, have rebelled against "new age" anything. When I helped start a speaker/workshop series a few years ago, I said please not something "New Thought" or "New Age", and so we came up with "Wisdom of the Ages."

My two favorite studies recently have been Vipassana meditation which was started by Gautama Buddha 2500 years ago or so. "...Buddha taught: an art of living. He never established or taught any religion, any 'ism'. He never instructed those who came to him to practice any rituals, any empty formalities. Instead, he taught them just to observe nature as it is, by observing the reality inside. Out of ignorance we keep reacting in ways which harm ourselves and others. But when the wisdom arises-the wisdom of observing reality as it is-this habit of reacting falls away. When we cease to react blindly, then we are capable of real action-action proceeding from a balanced mind, a mind which sees and understands the truth. Such action can only be positive, creative, helpful to ourselves and to others." S.N. Goenka "The Art of Living: Vipassana Meditation".

The other ancient tradition I have studied which goes along with the "Loving Kindness" meditation taught by Buddha is called Ho'oponopo, and it was created by a "Kahuna" woman ("Morna", I think) a long time ago. I spread a video about it all over the groups, so look it up if you are inclined.

Ron (which means "Teacher of Wisdom" in one of the ancient languages - Hebrew possibly?), I come from a scientific background, and the wisdom I study and practice has to be verified scientifically and even rationally, and Quantum Physics verifies both of the above. I also come from the Somatic field, and Buddha's work is definitely body-based. I even call Vipassana Meditation "whole-body Consciousness Meditation and is partly pure "Sensory Awareness." I have a masters in Somatic Psychology, and I fill like I am getting a Ph.d.(not that I care at my age) studying Vipassana. I recently attended a ten day Silent Vipassana Meditation retreat which may be the best thing I have ever done. There is a "Discussion" Section under the banner of the Meditation group, if you are interested. No Mistake, ron

My teacher Byron Katie when heard "nemaste" as a greeting thought she was hearing "no mistake" which is perfect for this dialogue you have started.

Permalink Reply by Jeanne on August 6, 2009 at 8:30pm

Ron said: "I am trying to be equanimous, instead of getting too "rah rah" about this. I asked Anand the teacher about "why not getting really excited about things like your team winning?". Expecting a lecture about how "pleasure sankaras were just as hurtful as painful ones in the long run", instead he simply looked at me with his clear eyes and beautiful smile and said: "Why can't we be joyous every moment?"

Vipassana... As it is... and for me, sometimes, it is exciting, especially after getting up from an hour sit. Sometimes I want to break into a run - skipping and jumping... feeling good to be so alive. But I don't... I simply observe my excitement... (knowing the team is winning.)

Permalink Reply by Ron Alexander on August 9, 2009 at 4:47am

Jeanne said:

Ron said: "I am trying to be equanimous, instead of getting too "rah rah" about this. I asked Anand the teacher about "why not getting really excited about things like your team winning?". Expecting a lecture about how "pleasure sankaras were just as hurtful as painful ones in the long run", instead he simply looked at me with his clear eyes and beautiful smile and said: "Why can't we be joyous every moment?"

Vipassana... As it is... and for me, sometimes, it is exciting, especially after getting up from an hour sit. Sometimes I want to break into a run - skipping and jumping... feeling good to be so alive. But I don't... I simply observe my excitement... (knowing the team is winning.)

That is a Onederful answer, Jeanne! Thank you - especially "knowing the team is winning", however I have not gotten that far yet. In fact, I miss my charge from pranayama, chanting mantras, etc. Then after that beautiful, rhythmic music would put me into a yoga-type stretching dance.Even though, the instructions were to go into the corpse pose.
Lately, monkey mind has taken over after about 30 minutes of Vipassana-type meditation. What do you attribute your success to? I know they called it something like a "free flow" - when the body is just "rippliing with energy" or something like that. And I know we are not to attach to that also, but obviously I am attracted to the "bells & whistles", which, in past, I have called 'transcedance". Should I just keep on with patience & persistance like you suggested above? much appreciation, ron
P.S I still hope that we would have our own group here, however, being newest "older student", I don't think it is my place to start one.

Permalink Reply by Jeanne on August 9, 2009 at 7:24am

I know what you mean about missing the charge... I initially found vipassana to just be hard work, without much charge or feelings of transcendence; whereas, other meditation techniques I'd practiced offered up pleasant altered states... but they didn't change my life from the atomic level outwards... they only gave me a temporary escape from negative thinking. Decades ago I called it mediscape... but I would never apply that term to vipassana. Its like the opposite of escape... its like going into the fire... unflinchingly. Buddhist boot camp...

Maybe what you call free flow... I call an atomic full body massage. It is wonderful to observe the flow that exists within, that has and will always be there... only our awareness of it changes. It is an interesting phenomena how we become increasingly aware of continual energetic motion by sitting perfectly still and observing. Monkey mind is reacting to that continual energy... and somehow we must become one with the energy and the monkey - not resisting or attaching our own emotions, senses and thoughts to either... even though our sankaras will be continually rising and passing twixt said energy. I vision levels of consciousness possibilities beyond that dance of duality... to achieve a subtlety of mind that can observe the space between atoms, the space where the web exists, the web that unites all mind, all time and space. I don't know, but I feel that place is a telepathic space, transparent and timeless - instant and ancient. When we are all there - consciously... we will be a different sort of humanity. and we won't need Comcast. As to penetrating the atom itself... maybe thats the flow of dhamma; if you think about it too much, you lose the flow. I am yet a child in the flow... like an infant learning to swim.

I love it when Goenka says "patiently and persistently, you are bound to succeed." Especially in the latter half of a course... when you're starting to feel over saturated... and your mind is swollen and stormy ...and each minute stretches into timelessness. Its like... thank-you, Goenka, I really needed that.

IMHO, if you're feeling the urge to start a vipassana group... do it. I will sign up as soon as I see its appearance. I suspect many people do wonderful things after returning from a meditation retreat. Their mind is clearer, their energy high and the drive to share their newly gained merits is pure. What better time or motive? You, after one course, by initiating an AOAND group, would potentially touch many generations of lives profoundly. ...a bigger team!

Thank you - especially "knowing the team is winning", however I have not gotten that far yet. In fact, I miss my charge from pranayama, chanting mantras, etc. Then after that beautiful, rhythmic music would put me into a yoga-type stretching dance.Even though, the instructions were to go into the corpse pose.
Lately, monkey mind has taken over after about 30 minutes of Vipassana-type meditation. What do you attribute your success to? I know they called it something like a "free flow" - when the body is just "rippliing with energy" or something like that. And I know we are not to attach to that also, but obviously I am attracted to the "bells & whistles", which, in past, I have called transcedance. Should I just keep on with patience; and persistance like you suggested above? much appreciation, ron
P.S I still hope that we would have our own group here, however, being newest "older student", I don't think it is my place to start one.

Permalink Reply by chad steele on August 9, 2009 at 10:53am

Ron, et.al.

I'm reading and I've heard the request for a "Vipassana" group a couple of times now. I personally would rather we stay here so that people interested in meditation will discover vipassana... plus, as far as I can tell there's less than 10 people contributing to this one thread... barely 4 really and I doubt that justifies a group.

...and that's just my opinion, not the truth, so if someone wants to create a group... it is all good (equanimous)
:)