Croneness = Crone finesse (A survey)

[Jeanne]

I don't know what wild hair moved me to start a group called Crone to the Bone
...but that's how I'd been feeling.
...it was like my inner radical punk, vegan grandmother came out.
I wanted to be part of a group with an in-your-face, primitive name... not a neatly starched apron-wearing, apple pie baking crone name. (actually, lets keep the apple pie);

...I wanted to talk to other women of maturity who were knee-deep in real life
...family, career, relationships, businesses, property, stress... stuff
...who'd rather stay home and talk via their computer. Women different than many we see everyday.
...yet, one and the same.
...so much smarts, humor, wisdom and grace... expressed in gently chosen words, reassuring phrases and supportive, smart-ass expressions of truth
...and amazing stories of determined existence and bouncing back.

Cyber-grandmas...

I have a few questions about crones...
Please, tell me what you really think... and it will inform my questions...
and who knows, maybe even be an answer?

Answer any or all questions that move you to express.
If you want to speak anonymously, please send me an email.
I understand that cronehood, aging and its necessary adjustments are sensitive subjects...

I am interested in hearing from you.


1.What image does the word ‘crone’ conjure up in your mind?

2.What moved you to join an online crone group? (if you did...)

3.What possibilities do you see for global online crone communities – a concept unheard of until only a few years ago?

4.Describe your personal experience with:

a.the comedy of crone,

b.the tragedy of crone.

[Marian]

AkashicWreckage said:

Marian~~I'm going to try very hard to write your name right, and consistently right!
You have described so well, that phase in life, when we begin to feel the impact of having so many pieces of ourselves that are broken off from our souls. We give those pieces to others, to so many others~~~and often with love being the very fiber of the bits and pieces---of our souls.

I am in awe of how I was---within the masks, for surely, whoever that was, it was me~~~
Had to be made of something that persevered.
And, I realized that I could gift those pieces back to myself and begin to know that I could finally be me.

Thank you so much, Marian, for reaffirming that for me.
With much love,
AW

You know AkaWreck, it's just as well Jeanne lets us ramble because some days you speak to?&thru me, some days I speak to you and most days I am speaking to I am, so -bless us for getting something right at the turning point of life: because on those days (like when I was writing the above & you responding - both of us sure of our paths, glad to be reaffirmed), when we're holding the hand of friendship out to each other we are capable of that process of reassembly you describe so well. Today, on the other hand, I am in a kind of mist - o yes, sleepless nights, fractured time patterns have to do with it, but...
...so to come back and read the loving certainty that {ONE} is capable of is so reassuring... do you know what I mean?

I know I am usually a positive person, have always had enough energy to share, give away (along with your pieces of love, so beautifully spoken), but lately I am more vulnerable. So it is even more miraculous that we meet on this vibrational level in order to help each other thru the moments when the vulnerability surfaces, appears to dominate. I know it's fleeting - all things must pass - but it's sure a liferaft - thanks for throwing it when I needed it.

[Ymani Simmons]

what a beautiful communication....thank you so much AW, Marian and Annie!

[Jeanne]

Thank-you Ymani, for your response to the crone survey... and for the pearls you placed throughout.

"We have the auspicious opportunity to truly make the difference we are capable of making."

You really touched on something here that I believe is vital to croneness. The 'opportunity' is a sacred responsibility... and one that is hard won. It is not one that any other can do for us... but is one that we must do for ourselves and the benefit of others. It is made more difficult by the longstanding patriarchy and image of crone as a dejected, unwanted and powerless being. Pshaw... to that!

"It is time for the balance of the feminine to rebirth within us all."

So true... and we can thank the women who paved the way to today... who did not have the benefits we have ...to create community, to reinforce one another across the miles.

Thank-you again... Ymani, of the beautiful name. Your presence blesses and benefits us.

[AkashicWreckage]

Marian~~"You know AkaWreck, it's just as well Jeanne lets us ramble because some days you speak to?&thru me, some days I speak to you and most days I am speaking to I am, so -bless us for getting something right at the turning point of life: because on those days (like when I was writing the above & you responding - both of us sure of our paths, glad to be reaffirmed), when we're holding the hand of friendship out to each other we are capable of that process of reassembly you describe so well. Today, on the other hand, I am in a kind of mist - o yes, sleepless nights, fractured time patterns have to do with it, but...
...so to come back and read the loving certainty that {ONE} is capable of is so reassuring... do you know what I mean?"

Yes, Marian! Surely a soul and heart thread connection that is {Felt}!
I know that I am not mistaken here---I feel your presence and energy. The others too.
AkaWreck! LOLOL!!

Marian: "I know I am usually a positive person, have always had enough energy to share, give away (along with your pieces of love, so beautifully spoken), but lately I am more vulnerable. So it is even more miraculous that we meet on this vibrational level in order to help each other thru the moments when the vulnerability surfaces, appears to dominate. I know it's fleeting - all things must pass - but it's sure a liferaft - thanks for throwing it when I needed it."

I, too, have felt that life raft---we are all, I believe, holding on and gaining strength to ride these waves.
Love,
AkaWreck

[drmike]

Initially, I was a bit put off by the “crone” moniker because of the impression of the really old witch image. However, as I read more this is nothing more than mature women speaking about their lives. I know many women express a FREEDOM in this age of life. There is not much concern for all the outer appearances, attracting mates, material stuff, and life gets settled. A spiritual depth increases.

I know two “crones” to discuss. They are sisters, about 10 years apart. They are definitely interested in the cyber world. They have taken courses at their "senior citizen center" which has day programs spanning in activities such as computer literacy, cooking, dancing, aerobics, etc. I see the two of them as being more self-assured now that they are retired. They like their time to themselves, although they are quick to still chime in to help if asked.

The more elder Aunt has been vegetarian for over 25 years. She is remarkably healthy, and sharp in wit. She will clip out an interesting newspaper article in a minute, to share on a topic of interest. In high school, if I did not know something he mantra was “look it up.” Once she fell in the shower, and had a painful hip for a couple of weeks. She quickly installed a supportive chair in the tub so that would not happen again. She is the epitome of independence, however I felt saddened one day to learn that she had a dry nosebleed. Others were not around, and unfortunately she wound up calling 911 to wait around the ER for a few hours without much ado. It was a self-limited process.

My other Aunt is 65 and also wants in on the cyberspace action. She is forever surrounded by people, and always has lived that way. As much as she is a traditionalist (like her sister, faithful to church each Sunday) this one really wants to be hip, and tries to keep up with today’s lingo, but often gets corrected by the grandkids. She remains the pillar of family both in the West and our legitimate link to family in the South.

They have lived through much and remain a constant source of wisdom, spirtitual guidance, and support. They don’t have University educations, but that to me that has not hindered them one bit. When I get some money together I’ll see if they would be interested in joining here.

[Jeanne]

This response is pasted with permission from another site.

1.What does the word ‘crone’ conjure up in your mind?
An old shaman woman, familiar with the forces of Nature, knowing how reality weaves in the inner world.

2.What moved you to join an online crone group? (if you did...)
YOU. Your spirit! A lot of energy, initiative.

3.What possibilities do you see for global online crone communities – a concept unheard of until only a few years ago?
Very important. It's time for women to unite. Especially women of age - they are holding significant energy on the Planet, also memory. Cyber space offers a bridge of communication that hasn't existed before, allows expression, sharing, support, networking, exchange of ideas. Also, a movement ignited online - spreads like a wild fire. It's beyond the control of interests. It's free. I've heard before we used to have a GrandMother Council here in America. We certainly had them in tribal communities. They would hold guidance and be a storage of wisdom. We need it now on the Earth.

4.Describe your personal experience with:

a.the comedy of crone,

b.the tragedy of crone.

Both remind me of a friend, who is now putting her story into a movie. She was born in Auschwitz, and then raised in a foster, Catholic family, in communist Poland. In the age of 18, she discovered she is a Jew. She nearly killed herself in a suicide attempt then. Later on she migrated to America, got married and raised two daughters, and set up three prosperous wellness centers in LA. Today, she lost everything. But - she is slowly discovering who she is really. In the age of 67. Beyond being Catholic, or Polish, or Jewish. She is learning she is a Soul and her Home is Light. About time! :)

[Jeanne]

Thank-you Dr. Mike for your response and for capitalizing FREEDOM... and for speaking honestly about being put off by the crone word - a word with much history steeped in patriarchal propaganda, designed to keep women down. The old women, while a huge resource in some cultures - were especially threatening to a dominant power structure that saw other's power as a threat rather than a resource.

It amazes me how these age-old propaganda induced images continue to influence generation after generation. I have seen original images produced during the Inquisition that continue to be produced in similar modern images. Though now its become part of folklore... and few know its origin was oppressive.

Thanks for sharing the sisters with us... they sound lovely and ferosh... I already knew their nephew was bold and bodacious enough to support our circle - I understand better now where that came from.

drmike said:

Initially, I was a bit put off by the “crone” moniker because of the impression of the really old witch image. However, as I read more this is nothing more than mature women speaking about their lives. I know many women express a FREEDOM in this age of life. There is not much concern for all the outer appearances, attracting mates, material stuff, and life gets settled. A spiritual depth increases.

I know two “crones” to discuss. They are sisters, about 10 years apart. They are definitely interested in the cyber world. They have taken courses at their "senior citizen center" which has day programs spanning in activities such as computer literacy, cooking, dancing, aerobics, etc. I see the two of them as being more self-assured now that they are retired. They like their time to themselves, although they are quick to still chime in to help if asked.

The more elder Aunt has been vegetarian for over 25 years. She is remarkably healthy, and sharp in wit. She will clip out an interesting newspaper article in a minute, to share on a topic of interest. In high school, if I did not know something he mantra was “look it up.” Once she fell in the shower, and had a painful hip for a couple of weeks. She quickly installed a supportive chair in the tub so that would not happen again. She is the epitome of independence, however I felt saddened one day to learn that she had a dry nosebleed. Others were not around, and unfortunately she wound up calling 911 to wait around the ER for a few hours without much ado. It was a self-limited process.

My other Aunt is 65 and also wants in on the cyberspace action. She is forever surrounded by people, and always has lived that way. As much as she is a traditionalist (like her sister, faithful to church each Sunday) this one really wants to be hip, and tries to keep up with today’s lingo, but often gets corrected by the grandkids. She remains the pillar of family both in the West and our legitimate link to family in the South.

They have lived through much and remain a constant source of wisdom, spirtitual guidance, and support. They don’t have University educations, but that to me that has not hindered them one bit. When I get some money together I’ll see if they would be interested in joining here.

[Terry]

1.What image does the word ‘crone’ conjure up in your mind?

One of the first that came to mind was an elderly woman who has things to say that not everyone wants to hear.

2.What moved you to join an online crone group? (if you did...)

Because my wife is part of this group, and she kept croning on and on….I mean droning on and on about it, and if I joined, I might be able to get a word in edgewise once in a while.

3.What possibilities do you see for global online crone communities – a concept unheard of until only a few years ago?

Clearly the possibilities are enormous - as indicated by the evidence of this group already.

4.Describe your personal experience with:

a.the comedy of crone,

I don’t see comedy in cone per se, but rather in whatever comedy a given crone is able by bring to life by virtue of their experience.

b.the tragedy of crone.

The tragedy of crone is if their lack of wisdom turns them in into the wicked witch variety.

[Jeanne]

Thank-you Observe for sharing your thoughts on croneness. I especially liked: "the first that came to mind was an elderly woman who has things to say that not everyone wants to hear."

The truth tellers are often unpopular... maybe thats why grandmothers bake all those good cookies to fill their detractor's mouth. LOL

Observe said:

1.What image does the word ‘crone’ conjure up in your mind?

One of the first that came to mind was an elderly woman who has things to say that not everyone wants to hear.

2.What moved you to join an online crone group? (if you did...)

Because my wife is part of this group, and she kept croning on and on….I mean droning on and on about it, and if I joined, I might be able to get a word in edgewise once in a while.

3.What possibilities do you see for global online crone communities – a concept unheard of until only a few years ago?

Clearly the possibilities are enormous - as indicated by the evidence of this group already.

4.Describe your personal experience with:

a.the comedy of crone,

I don’t see comedy in cone per se, but rather in whatever comedy a given crone is able by bring to life by virtue of their experience.

b.the tragedy of crone.

The tragedy of crone is if their lack of wisdom turns them in into the wicked witch variety.

[Glenna]

1.What image does the word ‘crone’ conjure up in your mind?

The first time I really heard the word used seriously was at a Goddess Gathering during a full moon. I was not yet a crone at the time, but it did get me to thinking about the value in growing long in years. Because of my positive introduction to the concept of aging without having to apologize for doing so, it has held a positive and warm place in my heart. Now that I have just celebrated my 58th birthday, and still feeling like a kid inside, I embrace the crone in me. But, I would not doubt for one moment that the birth of my first grandson, and the joy of his parents, has something to do with the happiness I feel at this time of life.

2.What moved you to join an online crone group? (if you did...)

I've been so remiss about being online lately, I did not know I had joined one. Or if I have not yet, I plan to. This is a great idea.

3.What possibilities do you see for global online crone communities – a concept unheard of until only a few years ago?

Well, I hate to be sexist, but I would love to see it bring on the nurturing side of life. The gentler side of life. Things like peace. Love. Caring for one another. Of course anyone of any sex can be for these things, but I would like to see kindness and caring break out in record amounts.

I would also like us to embrace our age as well as the youth within us. It is not a crime to get old. It is not ugly to get wrinkles and have our hair turn light. Just because people who want to sell things to us project a different image of that, I do not think it means much more than reflecting a way that advertising, and so on, can play with our minds. When we embrace growing older, we can embrace that part of us that never ages a lot more easily too.

4.Describe your personal experience with:

a.the comedy of crone,

Let me tell you about the time... oh, dear...I forgot what I was going to say.

b.the tragedy of crone.

The biggest tragedy, to me, is to not see the value we all have at every age we are. To be bound by ageism is not necessary.

There are many things in life which come to us as tragedy, at every age, so I could not say that there is particularly a "tragedy of crone"...but it sure takes longer to get the kinks out sometimes, though that is not a tragedy. Just a reason to try to stretch both body and mind if we are able to.

[Jeanne]

Hello Glenna,

Your joyous spirit just jumped off the page and made me smile... made me happy to be a crone. ...especially your take on the comedy of crone.

Thank-you for taking the time to share your thoughts on cronehood. ...and for being 'unapologetic'.

Metta,
Jeanne

Glenna said:

1.What image does the word ‘crone’ conjure up in your mind?

The first time I really heard the word used seriously was at a Goddess Gathering during a full moon. I was not yet a crone at the time, but it did get me to thinking about the value in growing long in years. Because of my positive introduction to the concept of aging without having to apologize for doing so, it has held a positive and warm place in my heart. Now that I have just celebrated my 58th birthday, and still feeling like a kid inside, I embrace the crone in me. But, I would not doubt for one moment that the birth of my first grandson, and the joy of his parents, has something to do with the happiness I feel at this time of life.

2.What moved you to join an online crone group? (if you did...)

I've been so remiss about being online lately, I did not know I had joined one. Or if I have not yet, I plan to. This is a great idea.

3.What possibilities do you see for global online crone communities – a concept unheard of until only a few years ago?

Well, I hate to be sexist, but I would love to see it bring on the nurturing side of life. The gentler side of life. Things like peace. Love. Caring for one another. Of course anyone of any sex can be for these things, but I would like to see kindness and caring break out in record amounts.

I would also like us to embrace our age as well as the youth within us. It is not a crime to get old. It is not ugly to get wrinkles and have our hair turn light. Just because people who want to sell things to us project a different image of that, I do not think it means much more than reflecting a way that advertising, and so on, can play with our minds. When we embrace growing older, we can embrace that part of us that never ages a lot more easily too.

4.Describe your personal experience with:

a.the comedy of crone,

Let me tell you about the time... oh, dear...I forgot what I was going to say.

b.the tragedy of crone.

The biggest tragedy, to me, is to not see the value we all have at every age we are. To be bound by ageism is not necessary.

There are many things in life which come to us as tragedy, at every age, so I could not say that there is particularly a "tragedy of crone"...but it sure takes longer to get the kinks out sometimes, though that is not a tragedy. Just a reason to try to stretch both body and mind if we are able to.

[drmike]

You are welcome Jeanne, and thank you for the nice comments about my page. I think it is just great that women can come together and talk. Obviously I KNOW there is a need for men to talk, but the reality is that we be MUCHO TOO MACHO for that, at least in a public forum! LOL!!!! There are many areas here on AOAND that people can peep into and can connect to without "forcing things"to happen.

Best, Mike