That was then... This is Now

[Ron Tocknell]

When I noticed my friend, Melanie (who is indeed a crone to the very marrow... and possibly beyond) had joined this group, I just had to take a look. Then, despite the anatomical and emotional differences, I had to join.

The media paints a very sad image of Woman as frivolous, shallow, ornamental servants of Man who have a terror of calories and an obsession with the size of bums. Sadly, many women buy into this illusion and perform the role, which reinforces the media concept and so on in a vicious circle.

Men and Women are different. Of course they are. Over the eons, the role of each has become distorted.

Once, in primitive social groups in which the Man's role was to hunt, it was necessary that they had a degree of aggression. It takes aggression to kill a beautiful animal. It also takes an ability to bypass compassion and to bury remorse and regret so that these emotions do not get in the way of the necessary business of providing food.

Woman's role was to care for the children and maintain the social environment in which the children are raised. Here, aggression would be a liability and compassion and understanding are vital in such a role.

That was then.

The inclination for competitiveness and aggression has become, to a certain extent, hardwired into the male mindset. So has our inclination to store emotions in a cellar to which we don't have the key. This has become distorted into an obsession with power and control. Seeing compassion and empathy as a kind of weakness, we have become aggressive and warlike with each other.

It's easy to see how this evolved into an image of ourselves as "Master" and Women as the "weaker", more submissive sex. Men and Women play out roles that no longer apply.

It is now time to re-evaluate our roles. Men fear that, without the role of 'Man-the-Hunter', we will be reduced to opening pickle jars and reaching things from high shelves. Women fear that, in order to compete in a "Man's world", it is necessary to become more aggressive and less compassionate.

I saw this group as a positive move toward getting to the root of who we are and this need applies to both Men and Women.

[Jeanne]

Ron,

Welcome to Crone to the Bone! ...and for jumping right in with such an interesting discussion. You make many good points about the evolution of gender consciousness. Its said that men and women are most alike "when fully ripened"... mature... understandably, the crone archetype, with its roots in wisdom gained from experience and its concern for the larger community, transcends gender.

Anatomically, men have a more complex sexual physiology and simpler process, whereas women - a simpler physiology with a more complex process. I've always thought there is a parallel in gender consciousness. As in the representation of duality symbolized by the yin yang.

I like the "saw this group as a positive move toward getting to the root of who we are". And perhaps the Crone - like the Hermit in the tarot - is a wayshow-er, holding a lantern to assist others where they've already gone... and in doing so, continuing the "getting to the root" process.

Metta,
Jeanne

[Ron Tocknell]

"Fully ripened". I like that. I've done the "middle-aged" bit (assuming, of course, that I live to 120), I've toyed with "primary mature" and now "fully ripened". With careful linguistics, I should be way past 95 before I need to call myself "old"

"Complex sexual physiology"? Tell me about it! I still haven't figured it out! "Simpler process"?? Are you kidding?? I still haven't figured that out either!

Ah! Truth lies concealed in jest! This is a very confusing time for men; particularly those caught in the "limbo" age, when all their conditioning from infancy had been in preparation for a status quo that, they are now discovering, doesn't actually apply.

Children need to be prepared for a balanced equal partnership of genders from the outset and they need to see these balanced partnerships in the adults who influence the paths they will take. They also need to see this equilibrium reflected in the society they grow up in.

Young people are bombarded with conflicting messages about who they are: TV and magazine ads telling them one thing, current changes telling them another and their own experiences telling them something else entirely. It's no wonder that young people seem so lost today. They need an ideological stability that has yet to become firmly established.

There are no immediate solutions to this. Challenging the old, distorted order of things is a hornets' nest that had to be kicked up. Hornets will eventually settle and establish a new nest but, in the meantime, there are bound to be casualties.

I've said this is a confusing time for men but this is also true for women. Women are also having to adapt to the New Order before the New Order is actually established. Consequently, women find themselves being expected to find their way in a world in which the demands of the Old Order overlap the demands of the embryonic New Order and they are, true to the expectations imposed upon them, trying to be all things to all people.

There is a great value in women's groups where they support each other. Men's groups would also be a great advantage if we could manage it without getting drunk and arguing about football :o) But also there is a vital need for men and women to support each other -- not just individually as partners but also en mass as communities -- to help each other find their own true roots. From there, the untangling process can begin. This is what I meant by a positive move toward getting to the root of who we are.

[Jeanne]

You are so right, Ron, when you speak of the need for supportive community groups. So many lonely people... of all ages... to bring them out to work and play together right in their own neighborhoods... like its meant to be... could be the antidote to many ills.

Here in Portland and a few other cities... in our grassroots... www.cityrepair.org...

[Ron Tocknell]

Joan Gregori said:

It seems Madison Ave. has altered true perceptions. Subjective reality, not what we actually take the time to see.

MADison Avenue (or perhaps I should be politically correct and refer to it as Emotionallydisturbedison Avenue) have not only created an imaginary parallel Universe but they seem to have cleverly convinced a vast percentage of the population that they should be living in it. Many who look at their own lives and compare it with the sparkly-toothed, crisp cotton, manicured lives portrayed by MadAv feel that they have somehow failed to live up to a standard that doesn't actually exist in the Real World.

They have a lot to answer for.

[Jeanne]

All this Madison Ave talk made me post a Bill Hicks video... not for the prim, proper or virgin ears.

[Ron Tocknell]

As you may probably have guessed, I love Bill Hicks. Thank you for that, Jeanne.

Acute observation, confrontation, irreverence, zen, astounding wisdom and scalpel-tongued humour all wrapped up in a package of pure obnoxiousness. I don't think we'll see his like again. Presenting himself as a generally unpleasant person liberated everything he said from the chains of approval.

I would never have invited him around for tea but I devour his humour with relish.

[Jeanne]

Great description of Bill... I think of him as a modern Mark Twain... but with an inherent angst and chaos bred during the past century. Ron, have you seen the clip when Bill's mother is on the David Letterman show 15 years after Bill's death and Dave apologizes to her for them cutting Bill's routine from airing 15 years previously. Its on youtube... I got a bit choked up while watching the mom part. Imagine being Bill's mother... whew.

Ron Tocknell said:

As you may probably have guessed, I love Bill Hicks. Thank you for that, Jeanne.

Acute observation, confrontation, irreverence, zen, astounding wisdom and scalpel-tongued humour all wrapped up in a package of pure obnoxiousness. I don't think we'll see his like again. Presenting himself as a generally unpleasant person liberated everything he said from the chains of approval.

I would never have invited him around for tea but I devour his humour with relish.