Marijuana and the the influence of nature on conciousness, sacrament or sacrelidge ?

[Marc]

Many have found epiphany in what the plant kingdom has offered us, but for others it can become a limiting cloud. What roles can the offerings from our natural surroundings play in our awakening ? What are your life experiences that inform this line of contemplation ?

[Debbie]

Hello All and thatnks Marc for this discussion!

What Ive found interesting about marijuana is that in my earlier years of smoking, I was only doing it for fun and when I got depressed or upset about something, for an escape from reality. Now as an older person, I find that I only use it for when I need to relax, be more creative with music, and writing. My way of dealing with depression and being upset is to let go and let God handle with those things that I can't. Ive also learned that, as someone else said, helping others such as youth and young adults find their place in life is the most exhilaring feeling in the world. No puff of the sticky-icky could ever replace that!

[Erin Michelle]

You have structured this discussion perfectly. Everyone has diverse and unique experiences but they all seen to say that marijuana should be legal. That dusty oregano we knew in the 60's and 70's has evolved into an exotic, expensive commodity. The natives in the Rogue Valley call my town Methford. Crystal has become interwoven with the weed. Pot's like gold to an unfortunate soul caught in addition, cash is king. The young dream of that big harvest that will buy them all the toys and all the meth and all the respect they crave. I dream of the day people can harvest their crop like they're picking tomatoes for canning. Use is up to each individual. Abuse is a fine line, walk in balance. These issues will always be with us about marijuana and every blessing we have received from our Mother the Earth. Legalization is long over due. Only then can we start to address the real issues pot brings to our society and stop using the argument to divide us. Thank you for continuing to guide this discussion and bless you for starting it, Erin.

Marc said:

Dear Lil and Anne,
my intention in this discussion is to bring about a kind of unified understanding, of the benefits and detriments of this activity. This is in my heart, because I believe that we need a clear message for the future. Part of architecture is creating instructions or a blueprint for how we can build this together. Do either of you think it is possible for you to weave together a kind of message, that places this plant in it's proper alignment with our movement?

If we had a manual for how to design a better future, what would the chapter on marijuana or other plants which influence our consciousness say ?

I have a understanding forming for myself, which I will ultimately weave together here, but I feel we all have something to contribute. so I am interested in what you might say.

Do you, either of you, feel like you could come up with such a chapter, or message which is comprehensive?

[Bruce Kunkel]

Amen!

Debbie said:

Hello All and thatnks Marc for this discussion!

What Ive found interesting about marijuana is that in my earlier years of smoking, I was only doing it for fun and when I got depressed or upset about something, for an escape from reality. Now as an older person, I find that I only use it for when I need to relax, be more creative with music, and writing. My way of dealing with depression and being upset is to let go and let God handle with those things that I can't. Ive also learned that, as someone else said, helping others such as youth and young adults find their place in life is the most exhilaring feeling in the world. No puff of the sticky-icky could ever replace that!

[Nicolas]

I totally agree. Marijuana is like alcohol, it changes your perception of thing... I don't believe in God but I believe that everyone has the right to believe in whatever he likes, drugs don't bring you closer to God, they bring you closer to whatever you want. Some become addicted to alcohol, but they had the right to choose. There is help for alcohol problems as much as for drug problems, adults should have the right to try and choose. I smoke drugs, I drink alcohol, and I don't believe I'm a bad person because of that, but I think that some go bad on drugs or alcohol, most people use there judgement but there's always a little part who never will. Finally, I think, it should be a legal choice for an adult to get high or not as much as for alcohol.

Jesse said:

Marijuana is neither a sacrament nor a sacrelidge, it is simply a plant. It is good for some and bad for others. But it most certainly should be legal for adults to choose to use it as they please.

Legality is the only real concern to me about any drug or plant. Why should the government tell us what is good or bad for us? As adults we are responsible for our own actions.

The experience of each indivisual will differ, some will find spirituality others will just search the cupboards for chips and jolly ranchers.

[thomas]

OK pots of Gold ,,somewhere over the rainbow!!! I think ,like any substance god given fruit should be first respected,, I use,,not very often,, but it does ,,open up a certain doorway,, in my mind and the ceativity flows more freely,, I've some friends,, that used to grow and have been smokin the same family for several years,, it's definately a connection,,I think alot of people,, dont know about respect,,and end up in abuse,therefore,Im not for totally leagalizing it,,however,I dont think it should be a "crime to smoke a weed!!" I never pay for it , it just comes to me!!i heard its expensive....silly humans,, it's just a weed!

[Jeanne]

T he criminalization of marijuana has colored people's view of it... cast a shadow over it. The environment that most marijuana is grown in is very paranoid, with security to protect it from both those for and against this very controversial herb. When people say the smoke makes them paranoid, they are absorbing the environmental experience of the plant. Imagine plants grown openly, loved and embraced by all for their beneficial properties, with none of the fear or greed that has stigmatized them. ...as openly as echinacea and oregano. As our consciousness of the this herb becomes healthier, the experience of the smoke will also change.
Then, we will sit in a circle and share a peace pipe... with the peace of knowing that we live in healthy, sane, even illuminated society.

[Michael King]

From my experience dope does nothing that cannot be achieved by the commitment to leading a disciplined life of clarity of mind and purity of heart. No one has ever achieved enlightenment by artificially manipulating blood chemistry. Of course there are rituals and ceremonies which may or may not involve chemicals of some kind which may assist in a breakthrough which gives some insight as to the way forward. On the other hand such ceremonies are relevant a few times in a lifetime and not as a lifestyle. There are so many wonderful hearts with wonderful ideas out there yet so very few ever actualise. No one addicted to anything be it dope, sex, food or meditation has ever achieved their full potential. There was a time I believed as others have expressed in this forum and I speak as one who has indulged dope, nicotine and alcohol way beyond anything healthy. Now I dont even drink tea, I dont need any chemical highs, stimulants dont interest me..... water no gives me the most amazing high I have ever experienced. There are no free lunches on the road to enlightenment my friend. Clean for over a decade I now offer spiritual life coaching services to ones in over 60 countries. I am so glad that I outgrew my dependence, avoidance and denials. Of course everything I say could be wrong. much love, Michael http://cosmosis.net.au http://theinsightfoundation.org.au

[thomas]

thats it you grew up,, for me Pot has never been a "dependence,", a recreation or is that re- creation.......are more likely the words i find,, when i search inside ,my mind,,,no regrets,, and still lovin life!! Thomas

Michael King said:

From my experience dope does nothing that cannot be achieved by the commitment to leading a disciplined life of clarity of mind and purity of heart. No one has ever achieved enlightenment by artificially manipulating blood chemistry. Of course there are rituals and ceremonies which may or may not involve chemicals of some kind which may assist in a breakthrough which gives some insight as to the way forward. On the other hand such ceremonies are relevant a few times in a lifetime and not as a lifestyle. There are so many wonderful hearts with wonderful ideas out there yet so very few ever actualise. No one addicted to anything be it dope, sex, food or meditation has ever achieved their full potential. There was a time I believed as others have expressed in this forum and I speak as one who has indulged dope, nicotine and alcohol way beyond anything healthy. Now I dont even drink tea, I dont need any chemical highs, stimulants dont interest me..... water no gives me the most amazing high I have ever experienced. There are no free lunches on the road to enlightenment my friend. Clean for over a decade I now offer spiritual life coaching services to ones in over 60 countries. I am so glad that I outgrew my dependence, avoidance and denials. Of course everything I say could be wrong. much love, Michael http://cosmosis.net.au http://theinsightfoundation.org.au

[Marc]

As I have followed this discussion, I have listened and felt all the offerings. Some expressed fear for the young ones who might lose their way. Some expressed gratitude for their deliverance from dependency and their emancipation from addiction.
Some expressed joy at the channel which opened a way for them to commune with the deeper resonance of the plant realms. We have heard concern, fear, reverence, caution, acceptance and respect.

There is also a social story we share about marijuana being a gateway to more intense forms of chemicals and substances, so too this discussion could become a gateway to a conversation about other parts of the plant kingdom and their effects on consciousness, such as peyote, mushrooms and even beer.

In my heart there is a purpose in bringing up these discussions. This purpose is to clarify, and unify the broader place such things might have in the fabric of an emerging culture of love, compassion and vision.

In this post I seek to express something personal about my connection to this plant and the value it has in my life. To place the awareness of it's effects into the context of wholeness and balance. My hope is that this discussion gives us a guide to the vast pallet of human experience, to weave together an understanding of differing views and provide a coefficient of coexistence.

I have experienced many different substances as listed above during my life. These experiences were sometimes epiphanies about the nature of the universe, and sometimes just a big headache and confusion which drove me to seek purity. I was fortunate to be in the SF bay area at a time when there was a respect for and earnest heartfelt desire to see beyond the surface of life. To explore the great mystery of the structure of the universe. I was raised with marijuana in the context of Rastafari. I was given mushrooms in the context of a vision quest. The goals of placing these things in my body was clear and defined. I was asking the universe to reveal itself to me in a deeper way, largely because the elders in my life placed that context around me and our culture. This has been true for tribal cultures for immeasurable years.

This is the context which can missing for many of the people who are introduced to this plant in our current social climate. In this light I see these plants as tools or building blocks of awakening. However, meditation, yoga and spiritual disciplines can also provide this.

Architects know that structures can be built and formed in many ways using very different materials and techniques, however all these ways of building are still subject to the specific laws of physics, and thus if you do not want your house to fall down in summer, you may not want to build it out of snow in the winter. unless you live in Antarctica or the Arctic.

As we unfold the blueprints for the next epoch in human development, we do ourselves justice if the chapter on these substances urges caution and respect, but not fear. We do ourselves justice if, we as elders express a context of reverence and joy for the many visions our brains and bodies can manifest.

My experience was about moving toward awakening and a joy in the bounty of life.
In my dream of compassion, acceptance and coexistence, the architecture supports people who commune with these vibrations. This support manifests in an abundance of context for paths to awakening, but not retreat into the darkness of addiction. The liberty to seek to experience light reflected against the many facets of the jewel that is my body and brain.
My dream allows for parents to offer a spiritual vision quest though the plant portal, but also to offer the discipline of boundaries and limits.

To some these views might seem unmanageable or even dangerous. I am sure many would be very concerned about the parenting of someone who might let their 12 year old boy or girl sit naked for three days without food, on a mountain top. Such an experience might be seen by some as ample reason for child protective services to intervene in the parent child relationship. For others there may be an acceptance of this approach as a valuable way to catalyze spiritual growth.

In the absence of mentoring or spiritual context these pathways are unhealthy, yet with the proper respect and limits, they could serve as part of a balanced education.

This then is what lives in my heart and mind on this subject.

[ginger gilmour]

Bruce & Friends,
Having been part of the sixties and have for the last 20 years been treated, trained, practiced, taught esoteric colour healing here in the UK, USA & Switzerland under the wonderful elder (now deceased) Lily Cornford, founder of the Confederations of Healers in UK and Brussels. Phew! Now that is said.....

Your question is a on-going question. When I first met Lily for healing she asked me what drugs had I done? I said, 'Lily I have not had even a aspirin in the last 15 years (I am now sixty)'. She responded, 'Well, dear, you still have it in your aura. But, not to worry, you have come to the right place!' So now after approx 25 year later a new perspective is growing.

I have also studied with Torkom Saraydarian and others who firmly hold the conviction that drugs cloud the auric body. Other cultures like the Kogi feel it expands consciousness...there seems to be a broad spectrum beyond these two examples. After a few years with Lily it seemed that most of the patients she had me work with were of a drug experience. Interesting I thought at the time. I was able to empathesize with their situation.

Also, having come from a rock-n-roll background many of my contemporaries at the time as we passed through different cycles as we grew older shared the expanding effect of drugs. I have been able to witness that many are sad.....that they are not able to continue because their bodies cannot support this anymore. Equally, they seem to equate the expansion into the Joy with taking the drug. So they grow bitter and loose hope that life is ending....Others that had a doorway opened then, found other non-drug tools like meditation or a way of being through a philosophical approachs.....that opened one to what we truly are, that was a experience of being they had earned and saw very clearly it was our natural state of being...... and are doing fine with the wisdom of eldership.

I personally feel that with the mental and emotional and soul vision quest that I awoken to...... does not seek or need such things anymore. In fact, not even a drink of alcohol do I take....for it always taints the colours of the day and in my heart.....and now affects the sculptures and paintings I create. This is my process. What I feel is that each person is on a journey to find that action or food or thought which will bring forth the radiance of their soul. This endeavour has many phases and colours. So when I meet a person I relate to them by the radiance and glowing heart energy that they are.

Thank you for the podium to share.

In Beauty,

Ginger Gilmour
www.gingerart.net

[Jeanne]

Ginger, I checked out your gallery and wow! beautiful... love your contemporary aesthetics. I work, uh, play in 3D art too. I lose myself in the the process, that's why I keep doing it.

Per Marc's thread: It is true that drugs/herbs can potentially cloud the mind, but isn't that the point of drugs... whether prescribed by a surgeon to relieve one of pain or a shrink when enduring intense grief? Shamanic and other spirit journeys often use drugs to assist silencing the chattering mind we are conditioned with, thus allowing the mind to open to another realm... yet still it is our own mind that journeys into the mysterious. As Marc pointed out in his well informed discussion, ceremonial use of a substance is often introduced by an elder or guide and is accompanied by other traditional practices. The mindset is one of honor and respect - remembering that respect is usually earned by those who have demonstrated principled power.

Maybe, only the Amish aren't "clouded" with drugs at some point, but for everyone else, a drug has been designed for thousands of maladies... complain about it and you can get a drug for it. The abuse and misuse of all mind altering substances has been orchestrated by those who gain the most from it - big pharma or drug cartels... not a demonstration of principled power.

The predominant information being propagandized about mind altering substances is reactionary, often spoken by those whose lives have been scarred by drug use. Why don't we hear more voices like Marc's? Voices that speak reverently about their spirit journeys... maybe we don't hear more because they have been discouraged from sharing the profound aspects of consciousness exploration. ...and have been discouraged from knowing the tools that assist the consciousness. Yet, refined sugar, poison to the body and brain, is available everywhere... things that make you say hmm-m-m...

We need to balance, be eclectic and keep the good parts of our emerging culture - honor the parts that serve us.
Joni Mitchell looked at both sides of clouds... and we loved her for it. Though when she admitted she really didn't know clouds at all, we understood.

[Arlene Cohen Miller]

In my humble opinion, if our goal is unity and harmony consciousness, God Purity and God Clarity, then addictions of all kinds must be dropped. In order to be a clear conduit between heaven and earth and ground and express more love, we must keep our channels clear of all such substances as well as fear and negativity. If we want to change, grow and expand into our highest, clearest, brightest self, marijuana cannot be in the picture. I was a marijuana user for years, and personally know that toll it took on my body, mind and spirit. This may not be what some want to hear. It is my truth and I feel it is the truth. Drugs of any kind can only cause a Quasi Spiritual Ephiphany, and not the real thing. Thanks for opening up the discussion. Namaeste, Arlene